posted May 15, 2000 05:07 PM            

Let me know if that's of any help to you.

posted May 16, 2000 12:24 PM               

There are no product manufacturers in the business that allow sales of retail-sized products on the internet.

The reasons are, like Randy says, they are not legitimately delivered there.

The best bet is to go to your salon and buy it - you'll get a recommendation for the best product for your hair, have it guaranteed and know it's real!

By the way (and in the same breath), how would you feel about being able to buy "sample" sizes right here on beautynet? They'd be legitimate.

Randy - I'd be especially interested in your take on this one!

posted May 16, 2000 07:05 PM               

Viviana - there are many salons selling product, and they are doing so because, in their mind, they should be able to sell product like any other "retail outlet" does.

Which raises a question to everyone...how often are you "sold" products at your salon? Are you recommended product each time you go, and do you buy?

Also, is product obvious, available to sample and part of your salon experience?

I'm really interested to hear more about this!

posted May 16, 2000 07:11 PM               

In addition to my previous post, I don't often get samples of products that I want. Many times I have been offered samples of products that the stylists don't want or a different product than I requested.

Speaking of samples, I don't consider the stylist using a product on my hair exactly a sample. I might be tempted to purchase a styling aid this way. I prefer to take the shampoo and conditioner home to try and see if get the same results because in the difference between me not being a professional and the fact that water is different causing different reactions.

posted May 17, 2000 05:18 AM               

So, I'm interested in this...does anyone else have a comment about how often their stylist/local salon makes an effort to sell them a product?

(I believe this will drive the manufacturers to reason "if the salons can't sell it right, then we will)

posted May 17, 2000 10:34 AM               

It seems odd that no one else ever talks about getting samples. I think its a good way to share and see if the product will work for someone. Granted samples are expensive (often costing almost as much as the full size product which is why I will make my own samples) so maybe that is why not many salons do sampling.

posted May 17, 2000 04:42 PM               

I don't recall EVER being "sold" to by a salon. It would be so easy for the shampoo person to explain what they were using and why and for the stylist to show you the styling products they are using on you. Then when you pay they could ask you "do you need any hair products today?" that kind of thing.

Recently I went to a salon to inquire about products. It was obvious they were heavily into Aveda because of the product placement and shelf space it took up. Since I wanted information on that line I went in. It turned out the salon exclusively used Aveda haircare products on it's clients.

I went there on three separate occassions and spoke to three different stylists before I purchased. While all of them were knowledgeable and helpful, I didn't end up with products that worked for me on this first round. I did some more research on my own and purchased other Aveda products that have been much better for my hair type and condition.

So I feel the salon staff was a bit misinformed with regard to their recommendations for me. I don't think you can rely on a salon for recommendations. The Aveda Store I visited made the right recommendations afterwards. BTW, the salon carried Aveda trial/travel sizes for purchase.

I will buy wherever it's most convenient. I can get information, recommendations and product reviews on the web and from books and I don't think salons have any expertise on this subject that isn't available elsewhere. I think Aveda is lucky I gave their products a second chance.

Martine

posted May 18, 2000 06:31 AM               

I think this is a situation of "perception" - that is, what the customer see is often different than what the salon feels they have to offer.

posted May 18, 2000 08:35 AM            

1st: The stylist explained very thoroughly what each product she used was. Since she cut my hair with a new cut (not by my choice) I needed complete help in buying products I never knew existed: a smoothing gel and a serum. So she showed me step by step how to use each product, and offered several tips too. I went back to the salon to buy more products 2-3 months later and right away, a girl came up and asked me if I needed help. Very professional. I believe she actually worked strictly in the front cashier area and was not a stylist.

2nd: The stylist recommended some shampoos and conditioners stressing how much I should start using salon brands instead of store bought. She explained into detail a little more about it.

3rd: My current stylist has recommended a leave in nourishing conditioner but never anything else. If I needed anymore info, I would have to ask her. Also, I don't recall her ever telling me the brand of anything unless I've asked. And she's never offered prices, but I think she figures if I wanted any, I would ask. (which is true, I would ask)

Now when I've walked into a salon just for the products, if there is noone at the front desk and everyone is busy doing hair, I usually haven't had helpful service. Maybe it is in the salons best interest (if they have the means) to have a front desk person who is well educated on the products, who can assist with sales?

posted May 18, 2000 08:55 AM               

I am almost out of shampoo and conditioner so I needed to buy some more. I knew that I wanted to try some Sebastian products since they come highly recommended (Internet recs) and I had never tried them before.

1st stop-a Beauty "Mall"-This is a store/salon. I walked in and was not greeted by anyone. I couldn't find the Sebastian products so basically I wanderered around for like five minutes until I found it. They didn't have any of the new collection. They were out of most of the products I wanted to try. Finally (it is Monday-wasn't sure what else would be opened) I purchased a bottle of the Laminates Polishing Shampoo. When I went to check out the cashier (owner) was not particularly friendly. She didn't ask me if I found everything yadda yadda yadda. She was rather snobby to me. I will not be ever going back there.

2nd stop-I still needed some conditioner. This was a pleasant supply. I had to run into to K-Mart for other stuff so on the way out I stopped at their salon. There was only one person working (the stylist). I found the products I was looking for easily. At the checkout the lady apologized for not being able to help me. She asked me if I found everything. Then she proceded to tell me about the products (Laminates Conditioner and Potion 9) and offered more recs if I was looking for something different. She felt the products I chose would suit my needs though. Anyway, I was not expecting this salon to be so helpful. I would repurchase from them again.

As to the whether or not I would go to salon to purchase a product opposed to the Internet. Really it would depend on the amount of free time. My job (when I get it) will consume much of my free time. I would like to have the option to be a work and place a quick order for whatever hair products I need. Other times I would like the option to go into a salon and see what new products are available.

posted May 18, 2000 10:11 AM               

Hopefully this will work out well and since everything will be mailed from our corporate offices we will have knowledge of where every product is going and we will have reps in each area making sure that the products are where they are supposed to be. Diversion is a big problem with our industry and I am going to do everything I can to make sure my products are not diverted. Even if that means going to a salon and pulling it off their shelves myself.

posted May 18, 2000 10:17 AM               

You bring up a good point about comparing salons to retail stores. What I would like to know is would you want your salon to treat you like you are in a retail environment? Many salon customers like the fact that there are no high pressure sales tactics. They come to a serene, calm environment where they can unwind and relax. Granted they are told about the products as I use them, but they are not beaten over the head with sales pressure to get them to buy a product. I have even been known many times to give a client the products and say "use them for a week, if you like them come back and pay me, if you don't bring them back to me and you owe nothing". I do this because I know the products I recommended are vital for their style.

posted May 25, 2000 07:06 PM               

If it is a salon selling the products on the web, it is illegal. They have a contract with the manufacturer which says they CANNOT sell on the web. If they do, they have broken the contract and it is just a matter of time before they get sued. Aveda is VERY VERY strict about it. They will take you to court in a heartbeat.

If the company is not a salon, things get trickier. There is a law in the US (a stupid law mind you) called the right to first sale. What that means is, if the web company buys a truckload of products, he has a right to sell those products and make a profit. It doesn't matter that the products may have been stolen off another truck or made by someone else in a warehouse somewhere. The retailer has the right to sell them. The manufacturer can't sue him for selling it. He can sue the person he bought it from, but for the most part, the retailer isn't talking and they have to get an injunction to get the paperwork. By that time, the retailer has quit selling it, or filed bankruptcy and opened under a new name, and therefore, the legal matters have to be started all over again.

If the retailer is selling goods in which the lot numbers have been tampered with that is another story. Most manufacturers know by the lot number where that batch was shipped. They can start tracking the products from there. When the lot numbers are removed, that is called tampering. That is illegal. There is a bill being sent to the congress about this very thing. They want to step up what the manufacturers can do in these cases.

I know for a fact that Sebastian has set up sting operations. They produced counterfeit products and sold it to one of their distributors, who in turn sold it to another company, who in turn got busted when the ship came into the US Port. Authorities were waiting there with officials from Sebastian to check the lot numbers on the counterfeit goods. They matched and the man was arrested and is now awaiting trial.

If Sebastian hadn't caught the people, those products would have ended up on the shelves of our local retailer and on the web. The products werent authentic. They were made by Sebastian to catch these criminals. So if you buy on the web or at your drug store, you don't know for sure what you are getting.

posted May 25, 2000 07:09 PM               

Everyone is talking about buying hair care on the web... DO YOU PEOPLE NOT GO TO A SALON?

Can you not buy it there?

posted May 26, 2000 05:52 AM               

Don't worry, the message got through to me the first time you ever mentioned that the products could be counterfeit. I live in England. I'm American and miss not having my usual products available to buy immediately. However, I will try to get a salon to order my products for me before ordering on-line. Glad I never have ordered salon shampoos on-line.

I understand that some people just don't live in an area where salons carry the products they want, or they live in a rural area where they might not have a salon nearby. It would be nice to have these companies be able to sell on-line from their own sites. I understand that their reasoning is that the stylists should be advising what type of their shampoos are best for the clients hair. That does make sense, but not every salon does this and just lets the client choose their products.
So I can see where people would think that if this is what's happenning in some salons, why not just sell their products on the net from their own sites?

Living in England I have an extra problem: Not every hairstylist is licensed to be a hairstylist. This is not illeagal-the law doesn't require education to be allowed to work in a salon. I think most salons here insist on it if you want to work in that salon, but you don't have to according to the law. That's why I rely a lot on your advice Randy!

I think it's just safer and frankly the right thing to do to just buy from the salons.

posted May 26, 2000 07:28 AM               

A trip to the salon is a big deal for some women, but to just buy products really all you're paying for is the real product and hopefully some great advice on what product to buy. No need for an appoitment so I think that's what Randy means by "What's the big deal"? Of course if that's wrong please correct me Randy!

Holly

posted May 26, 2000 09:12 AM            

First I called www.discountblvd.com, here's what the rep said after I asked her a few ?'s:

"We buy our products from a legit local distributor, not the actual manufacturer. We've never had any problems with any companies and we've ran our site for over 2 years. We did have to pull Nexxus off because of some conflicts though. The reason any salon would suggest any of that stuff is contaminated or stolen is because they sell the same products. So we're stealing business from them."

Okay so then I called Abba, an ACTUAL company. And just like Randy has been saying, this is what the rep said:

"No, it is not illegal for websites to sell our products. But if a salon we distribute to sells them off the internet, that is illegal." Then she said that web sites that sell their products are kind of like Costco selling products at discount rates. And she has never heard of any websites selling contaminated or stolen products.

Last I called beautyofasite.com, this was a little interesting guys:

First off a girl answered the phone saying "Saphire Salon" I asked is this beauty of a site? and she said yes. Anyways, I asked her some questions and here's what she said:

"All our products are completetly LEGIT! We are an actual salon and sell products off our shelf. We are a huge salon, a tanning salon, everything. Completely legit." I asked her about it being legal to sell products off the internet since they are a salon. She says "Yes, we have permission from the distributors. But even if it were illegal, you wouldn't be the one to get in trouble. The company would just call us and we'd have to stop selling their product off the web" Then she said the only reason a hair stylist would say that is pure competition.

Okay, will I buy from the web? Honestly, I might. But only if I know what product I wanted (already had a consultation or already tried it)and had a reference. Like someone here for instance that has already bought from them, and I would call the company and get a "feel" of things.